Tracking, tons of questions.

[ThunderRobo]

Alright guys, Winter's kicking in and i'm going to start slowly ordering some stuff for the car next year.

I went out to nine, maybe eight track events the past 4 months and i'm in love with the road courses, haha one month i went out for four weekends in a row woot I'm able to keep up with some of the faster/more powerful cars on shorter tracks, but it is obvious that they're really pulling away in the straights.

my little M54 lacks in power, and there is little i can do about it other the blower, but even then, the numbers arn't all the great. I was thinking about a S54 swap, but that won't come anytime soon. So i though i'd make up for the time in the corners and keep the momentum going though the turns, i think i have the lines for DDT and Shannonville down pretty good, and that it's time for some more parts.

The Past summer, at first, i ran a completely stock 46 sedan, the only after market parts i had on (performance wise) were AXXIS ULT pads. After two days at the track, the rotors were warped, pads glazed over and tires bald.

I slowly added parts until i have my current setup (i ran it like this for maybe 6-7 track days, minus the intake/exhaust)
-325i rotors (300mm, 3cm larger then my old ones) front and rear.
-AXXIS Deluxe pads for street, HAWK race pads for the track
-OEM X5 brake fluid
-Eibach springs
-Intake // Catback exhaust ( no power gains )

And sitting in my basement are...
-Ksport BBKs -8 pot, street pads and SS lines
-Brembo 600 Brake Fluid
-SS lines for Stock rear calipers
-Koni Dampeners
-Front Strut Bar (i know it's useless, but picked it up for $50..)

Anyways, i was thinking of buying more parts to help the car out handling wise, need some advice.

-Sway Bars?
-Camber Plates?
-Rims/Tires? -Something lite and cheap, then warp some sticky tires on them

Also, I was thinking of buying the UUC PBK for the rear, which will allow me to run 327mm OEM rotors and a 4pot caliper, the kit runs around $800, which i think is pretty good, What do you guys think??

Thanks guys, Looking froward to coming out the the 'ninja' days with you next year!
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[951kid]

you are going down the right path with suspension/brake mods first.

before i answer, have you done some driver development training [ie- at DDT] or were these purely lapping days? bang for the buck, that will be the best investment and give you a better return than all the parts you've rhymed off.

if you have, then i'd look at cooling mods = ducting?. one quesiton - your brake fluid...is that Motul 600? and how old is it? brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorb water over time, so i wouldn't put it in if its been sitting for a long time.

if you are thinking of camber plates and so on - i'd do that when you do your shocks. it really depends how extreme you want to go with this thing. if its not your daily, and you don't mind chewing through tires or running multiple alignments, i'd play with all the settings at a track day and tune it based on that. personally, i like adding parts one by one...really makes you appreciate what is improving and what to improve next.

good to see you're doing it on the track and using your BMW for what it was built for :thumbsup:

[ThunderRobo]

you are going down the right path with suspension/brake mods first.

before i answer, have you done some driver development training [ie- at DDT] or were these purely lapping days? bang for the buck, that will be the best investment and give you a better return than all the parts you've rhymed off.

if you have, then i'd look at cooling mods = ducting?. one quesiton - your brake fluid...is that Motul 600? and how old is it? brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorb water over time, so i wouldn't put it in if its been sitting for a long time.

if you are thinking of camber plates and so on - i'd do that when you do your shocks. it really depends how extreme you want to go with this thig. if its not your daily, and you don't mind chewing through tires or runningn multiple alignments, i'd play with all the settings at a track day and tune it based on that. personally, i like adding parts one by one...really makes you appreciate what is improving and what to improve next.

good to see you're doing it on the track and using your BMW for what it was built for :thumbsup:
Thanks for the reply, I went to 3 training days at DDT (mostly lines) and a few nights of AutoCross training (mostly car control), i believe i only looked into it back then because a member recommended it. I agree, Money VERY well spent.

Yes, good catch, it is Motul 600 Fluid i have, I bought it a week ago, still sealed, not sure how long it's been sitting on the shelf tho.

As far as CamberPlates goes.. I'd like something that isn't too hard on the tires on the streets while still being able to be somewhat aggressive on the track.

[951kid]

ok, so you have the basics covered. for the camber plates - your stock set up does have a small, very small, amount of camber adjustment and there was a cheap trick to increase it even more by swapping the orientation of the upper shock mounts [at least on the m3]. if you plant to do a lot, and run R compounds, i'd say go for it. there's probably a few threads somewhere for your car that outline some good aligment specs.

one last hting to consider - how many km's on your car? i'd look into your bushings front and rear if its high.

[ThunderRobo]

ok, so you have the basics covered. for the camber plates - your stock set up does have a small, very small, amount of camber adjustment and there was a cheap trick to increase it even more by swapping the orientation of the upper shock mounts [at least on the m3]. if you plant to do a lot, and run R compounds, i'd say go for it. there's probably a few threads somewhere for your car that outline some good aligment specs.

one last hting to consider - how many km's on your car? i'd look into your bushings front and rear if its high.

68000km.

Hmm, i read about that too, maybe i should see what i can get out of that before i go for the camber kit then eh?

What do you think about the UUC Rear PBK, i am thinking that i'll get brake bias issues with the BBK up front and the stock calipers on the back. And the extra breaking power cant hurt!

Regarding Brands, what should i use for Sways? I was thinking H&R.

I've never tried R-Compound, What's the best bang for the buck out there, RA1? or Toyo's new 888s?
haha, i guess i should start looking for some light rims eh?

Thanks for all your help bud!

[951kid]

i'm not familiar with or have ever seen a car running the rear PBK so i'm not the right guy to ask on that one. However, brake bias issues are worst with too much rear bias, not "too much" front. You should be fine running only front BBK - Yorgi is a perfect example of this. watch him drive, and take a look at his set up. His was done more out of availability of kits, but still serves as a great example. I alos run a Race pad on the front calipers, and mild street pads on the rear - no issues at all.

The old "touring GT ontario series" i used to crew on had a heavily modified 944 turbo - we were contemplating putting the 924 rear drums in the back due to a loop hole in the points system. other guys have done it in the US - it's not going to be absolutely neccessary to run your rear kit. But since you have it, jam it on i suppose - but i would check with the manufacturer and let him know what you have on the front. [this is where they may try to sell you the front - ask for an explanation if that "is" the case] Maybe you can put the ffronts on and see how you like it, then decide on the rears.

For the sways - again, i have held off pulling the trigger on this for this car. The GC ones were on my list, but Peter [carboy88] advised that the adjustable ones are very noisy and i'm not willing to purchase them if they clunk around. What i would do is check out the bimmerworld speed world challenge team. They of course benefit from the adjustable bars but the message they gave me when i asked them 3 years ago at the american lemans series/swc event [where my teams car smashed into a wall in corner 2 and 10] was "put a giant front bar on the car" - i just havent bothered to [and have no more $ left for] sways at the moment. While you are doing them though, replace the end links - you're already replacing the bar. again - noise issue, i replaced mine before they were too noisy because i was doing a few other items and they arent that expensive.

R compound - the 888's are supposed to replace the ancient RA-1. the compound is actually very old and has been run forever. They are faster on some circuits, and slower on others according to the Honda team running the castrol series. They said the tires ran just fine compared ot the RA-1 so if you can fine a set, go for it. Depending on the size, the best thing to do is find some take offs that have been cycled. for example, you could contact toronto tirecraft, give them the sizes and see if they have any old ones. its cheap, and a great way to do this on a budget. I remember somebody telling me that it is not recommended to "shave" them though - but i dont remember exactly what or who said that.

light rims - you could, but just get whatever you can right now before spending a ton - just try to find something thats going to clear your BBK. your on the right track, but the lightweight stuff will help when you're tuning out milli-seconds. overkill for 90% of the guys that blow cheese on them. i would look at your front control arm bushings, rear trailing arm bushings, rear shock mounts and so on.

[asb9987]

I'd highly recommend some Kosei K1 17x8.5s all around. You can slap some R-Comps on those. It would make for a sick track setup - light ad inexpensive. Not sure if they would clear your BBK though.

[ThunderRobo]

I'd highly recommend some Kosei K1 17x8.5s all around. You can slap some R-Comps on those. It would make for a sick track setup - light ad inexpensive. Not sure if they would clear your BBK though.

Thanks for the link.

oh hawwt damn! those things are CHEAP and LIGHT!!

Will deff look into those, i really hope they'll clear the brakes... although i think i need at least 18"s to clear... never hurts to try!

951--
Thanks for all your help so far, will deff looking into some take-offs!

[m4play]

off from the OP topic, but did you guys take driver training course before tracking by yourself or you just drove slow at first then faster once you get a hang of it?

[ThunderRobo]

off from the OP topic, but did you guys take driver training course before tracking by yourself or you just drove slow at first then faster once you get a hang of it?

Yup,
Three half days at DDT and 1 full day at Dunnville (which was more like autocrossing), and lots autocrossing at the beginning of the summer.

[glenspeed]

off from the OP topic, but did you guys take driver training course before tracking by yourself or you just drove slow at first then faster once you get a hang of it?

definately drive slow and with an instructor is the way to go before venturing out on your own. you learn more and you learn the right way to go around a track. I don't know how many times I see "fast" drivers careening around the track with no clue of the line or god help them what to do once the car goes past the limits.

the real trick is drive slowly and keep dialing up the speed once you know the lines and feel out where the limits are (both yours and the cars)

too many times I see guys drive at 11/10th's and their skill level is 2/10ths

check your ego at the door and bring a learning attitude and you will get much farther and faster.

[blue dragon]

For the sways - again, i have held off pulling the trigger on this for this car. The GC ones were on my list, but Peter [carboy88] advised that the adjustable ones are very noisy and i'm not willing to purchase them if they clunk around. What i would do is check out the bimmerworld speed world challenge team. They of course benefit from the adjustable bars but the message they gave me when i asked them 3 years ago at the american lemans series/swc event [where my teams car smashed into a wall in corner 2 and 10] was "put a giant front bar on the car" - i just havent bothered to [and have no more $ left for] sways at the moment. While you are doing them though, replace the end links - you're already replacing the bar. again - noise issue, i replaced mine before they were too noisy because i was doing a few other items and they arent that expensive.

Dipal, neither of my front or rear bars are noisy. The only way that they could become noisy is if the heim joints on the endlinks go bad. I've had the bars for 2 years now with no problems with the endlinks. There are also grease nipples on the bushing housing, so you aren't going to have a problem there.

The biggest difference in the way my car handled was not the coilovers, it was the big front bar. It makes a world of difference

[STALKER]

Dipal, neither of my front or rear bars are noisy. The only way that they could become noisy is if the heim joints on the endlinks go bad. I've had the bars for 2 years now with no problems with the endlinks. There are also grease nipples on the bushing housing, so you aren't going to have a problem there.

The biggest difference in the way my car handled was not the coilovers, it was the big front bar. It makes a world of difference
Agreed, the GC units are great.
The ones that Peter has are my old ones. and they never made any noise on my car either.

[951kid]

i'm probably going to be shopping for a set soon then - after Peter's feedback, i didn't really know if GC's were the way to go so i held off all summer. My end links are less than a year old so i should be good there.

Wayne - you had the adjustable ones correct?

[carboy88]

i'm probably going to be shopping for a set soon then - after Peter's feedback, i didn't really know if GC's were the way to go so i held off all summer. My end links are less than a year old so i should be good there.


I had the bars adjusted a few times to be sure that there no clearance issues, and that the bar preload was properly removed. My most recent adjustment reduced the clunking significantly, so they are nowhere as noisy as originally installed. Also, I am damn picky about noises in the car.:rolleyes:

I can still hear some clicking sounds, mainly from the rear, which I assumed was worn endlink bearings. I've been in touch with a local Aurora supplier to replace the bearings, but haven't really gotten to it yet - it's on my list of things to do in the off-season.

[glenspeed]

i'm probably going to be shopping for a set soon then - after Peter's feedback, i didn't really know if GC's were the way to go so i held off all summer. My end links are less than a year old so i should be good there.

Wayne - you had the adjustable ones correct?

I got the H&R's and have never looked back. no noise, no maintenance since the day I put them in whatsoever and OEM fitment, fully adjustable front and rear. I changed to VAC adjustable heim links in the front and they are perfect to dial out any preload.