Tracking

[Ben-G]

Plan to track car just wondering where i can get these parts (e46 M3)?

1) Low cost rotors (not slotted/or cross drilled) as they only last a couple of track days?

2) Tires 4 oem 18 m3 wheels (R compound) make/size? w/out rubbing

3) who makes fluids compatablie w/ car- oil/collant/diff/brake (racing grades)
- new to european cars so not sure bout all fluids

*** do u guys run w/ and specific camber/toe/spacers #?
*** what size sway bars r on these cars?

ur help is much greatly appreciated!

[glenspeed]

I don't know how you brake, but OEM rotors will last quite awhile if you vent and cool down your rotors properly. My rotors are using racing pads and last at least 2 seasons of about 5-8 track days a season. Stick with OEM rotors.

You can run up to 275/35/18 in general without rubbing YMMV. I run 265/255 R/F Dunlop Super Sport Race and plenty of room. I've heard you can run 285's but I would have to see it to believe it. Look for discontinued or last run R compounds for heavily discounted prices. I got mine from Tire Rack but these Dunlops are not available anymore.

Most fluids, again OEM is a good choice. For brake fluid, ATE, Motul are two of the best for racing/track fluid. Change your lines to stainless steel to fully take advantage of the higher performance properties

If you haven't got alot of experience tracking, stick to stock alignment specs. Most guys can't even tell the difference between 0 degrees of toe and 1/32nds negative, so leave it at stock. Once you have alot more experience you can start playing with toe to adjust to your liking. Camber is not that adjustable on stock suspension without camber plates, so you are limited to pretty much stock ranges.

Stock swaybar size is 26mm front and 21.5mm rear. I run 30mm front H&R sways.

[Ben-G]

I have tracked alot in the past but w/ Honda's

I have the ss brake lines and i was planning to use hawk blue or ferodo ,I usually brake hard and late. On my honda's they last 2-3days (9am-5pm track days) then machine and then 2-3 days then garbage. is this what i expect w/ oem rotors?

So i can run safely 255/265 no spacers?, but was wondering if u loose road feel w/ 255 in front. I know it a hard question to answer depnding on so many variables but how long do the tires last? (1 season)

does the front bigger sway bar make big diff?

I will get camber plates when i get suspension, still in research stage 4 suspension (so many diff opinions on all the boards!)

just wondering on car characteristics does it tend to oversteer or understeer?

other than a cage r there compnents made for bmw to stiffen chasiss?

[Yorgi]

Holy crap, a lot of questions! You remind me of my twin 6yr olds! (kidding) :D

OEM BMW rotors will last you at least one or two years, including 10+ track days per year if you use pads that are easy on rotors. Honda is not exactly known for it's brakes; they are about as bad as it gets.

Hawk blue give off nasty brake dust that welds onto to your wheels if they get wet, not to mention the glowing red embers they give off that screw up your paint. On top of that they have only a medium coefficient of friction and a low max op temp of 1,000°F. (the ones listed below are good for 1,400 to 1,600°F)

Ferodos are pretty good but they will eat rotors when cold (like Hawk Blues). I'd go for the DS3000 since you like to brake late.

I like to brake late and hard too and I find ultra-torquey pads that can lock the wheels unless you use finesse work great for me. If that's what you like, some of the better pads are Hawk HT-10/HT-14, Performance Friction PF01, Carbotech XP9/XP10/XP11 (this is what I'm currently using), Cobalt spec VRe/ spec VR / spec VT. If you don't like very grabby pads, I listed the model ranges from low to high torque. Most people recommend a lower coeff pad on the rear of the M3 for stability reasons.

I have a 330 so I can't comment on tire fitment for your car, but Glen is the resident track God and he has an M3 so he's a very good source of info.

The e46 tends to understeer like a pig. You will want to dial that out.

The e46 chassis is pretty stiff. I don't think you will need to add a cage to stiffen it. You can add a rear strut tower bar if you want.

[Ben-G]

Thanks 4 all the pads, and answering all the questions!

no i dont plan to put a cage as it is not a dedicated track car

But i was wondering if the car like to understeer then why did glenspeed go with bigger sway bar infront (or did he do both just did not mention it)?

For me i am so use to such a aggresive pad i cant track w/out it or atleast don't enjoy it as much! so w/ such an abrasive pad will i still get 10+ track days out of oem rotors?

[Yorgi]

I still have not got a straight answer from Glen on why he put only a front sway bar on. Maybe he has the rear shocks really stiff since he us using adjustable Ground Control coilovers. (GC and the TC Kline are probably your best suspension choices by the way)

Pad shape (and usually the part number) for the e46 M3 is D394 front, D683 rear.

Here is a list of the top pads I listed and the Hawk Blues for reference. I've included the most important variables (value of ??? if I do not have info) Sorry, but it's very difficult to post charts in vBulletin:

Make---Model---Front USD---Rear USD--Fade Temp°F---HOT coeff Fr---Longevity---Rotor Wear

Carbotech---XP11---???---???---1600++°F---0.6+++---???---???
Carbotech---XP10---???---???---1600+°F---0.6+++---???---???
Carbotech---XP9---$169---$137---1400+°F---0.6+---Very long---Low
Cobalt---spec VT---???---???---1800°F---0.66---???---low
Cobalt---spec VR---$199---$169---1550°F---0.64---Very long---Low
Cobalt---spec VRe---???---???---1650°F---0.62---???---???
Ferodo---DS3000---???---???---1382°F---0.62---extreme when cold
Hawk---Blue---$147---$138---1000°F---med/hi---Low if Hot, Extreeme if cold
Hawk---HT-10---$176---$161---1400°F---intermed/hi---Moderate
Hawk---HT-14---$189---N/A---1600°F---very hi---???---Moderate
Perf Fric---PF01---$248---???---2000°F---Very Hi---avg---Low
Perf Fric---PF97---$248---???---2000°F---Med-Hi---very long---very low

BTW, a coeff of 0.6 or higher is VERY high, like lock your wheels easily at 120kph.

I used a set of Carbotech XP9 last year. They lasted the whole season (6 days, and I even kept them on for the street all summer!) I have almost no rotor wear after one season.

[Ben-G]

wow! thanks 4 the pad info

what is the going price for GC and can u get custom spring rates ( if so what spring rates r avaliable)? and is it my understanding they use koni yellow?

[STALKER]

There is actually a set of OEM 18" wheels with R compounds if interested on M3forum.com, but non staggered set up is best to cure the understeer.

[Yorgi]

You can order any spring rate you want. Do a search on this site, there are a few current threads mentioning spring rates.

Here are a few:
GC vs TCKline (http://www.e46toronto.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=5065&highlight=ground+control)
GC Coilover (http://www.e46toronto.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4988&highlight=ground+control)
Sping Rates mentioned in this Install Thread (http://www.e46toronto.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4721&page=9&pp=10&highlight=ground+control)

Both TCK and GC use Koni. KW V2 and Bilstein PSS9 are not bad either.

[STALKER]

wow! thanks 4 the pad info

what is the going price for GC and can u get custom spring rates ( if so what spring rates r avaliable)? and is it my understanding they use koni yellow?
GC has a few diff kits, each to suit diff purposes better.
I had KW, found the ride to be harsh, even at full soft and little noisy.

[glenspeed]

I still have not got a straight answer from Glen on why he put only a front sway bar on. Maybe he has the rear shocks really stiff since he us using adjustable Ground Control coilovers. (GC and the TC Kline are probably your best suspension choices by the way)

LOL. Yes, I do have the rear shocks stiffer to compensate, but if you really want the honest answer, I would have a H&R rear bar as well, but it's more of a PIA to install so I haven't bothered and the handling is pretty damn good without it. Maybe this season, I get off my azz and get one...

[STALKER]

LOL. Yes, I do have the rear shocks stiffer to compensate, but if you really want the honest answer, I would have a H&R rear bar as well, but it's more of a PIA to install so I haven't bothered and the handling is pretty damn good without it. Maybe this season, I get off my azz and get one...
Like i keep saying, when you see me coming, just move over, lol.

[glenspeed]

Like i keep saying, when you see me coming, just move over, lol.

we'll see, LOL, you may want to get a refund on the Delage when we meet...

[STALKER]

we'll see, LOL, you may want to get a refund on the Delage when we meet...
LOL, stage II dynoed at 327 at the wheels baby, car was running 272 rwhp stock. Nice healthy gain.

[blue dragon]

Here's my explanation for the stiffer front bar. Even though putting in a stiffer front bar to help understeer goes contrary to what you'd think, it works for the following reasons.

The M3 rolls way too much, so the frotn suspension can't keep the tires planted, and you get understeer. With a stiffer bar, the car rolls less, and the front tires have more grip.

I can't talk for others, but look at how the wheels are positive cambered due to the roll in the stock suspension

http://www.wardphotography.com/big-blue-dragon/m3/CRW_6018.jpg

[STALKER]

Here's my explanation for the stiffer front bar. Even though putting in a stiffer front bar to help understeer goes contrary to what you'd think, it works for the following reasons.

The M3 rolls way too much, so the frotn suspension can't keep the tires planted, and you get understeer. With a stiffer bar, the car rolls less, and the front tires have more grip.

I can't talk for others, but look at how the wheels are positive cambered due to the roll in the stock suspension

http://www.wardphotography.com/big-blue-dragon/m3/CRW_6018.jpg
We need to get you out on track now....

[Yorgi]

Like i keep saying, when you see me coming, just move over, lol.LOL...I won't say how many HP I think you'll need to catch Glen, but it's more than you got. snap

Maybe I'll have to watch out though.

[Ben-G]

How long have all u guys been tracking?

[glenspeed]

How long have all u guys been tracking?

vary's, some very long (Yorgi & I) some more recent and some newbies. We have a good cross section of people though which makes each event alot of fun.

[STALKER]

LOL...I won't say how many HP I think you'll need to catch Glen, but it's more than you got. snap

Maybe I'll have to watch out though.
I know, he knows, you know, we all know, lolol. But I have to say it anyways. lolol. :thumbsup:

[STALKER]

How long have all u guys been tracking?
3rd season, Glen got me hooked.

[rost12]

vary's, some very long (Yorgi & I) some more recent and some newbies. We have a good cross section of people though which makes each event alot of fun.

Did you just call me a newbie?! I'm hurt :eek:

[STALKER]

Did you just call me a newbie?! I'm hurt :eek:
He did put you in the newbie group in one event,lol. :devil:

[Yorgi]

This thread is getting good. I'm laughin' my as$ off.

I've been tracking since ’97, a few months after I bought my first BMW.

[STALKER]

This thread is getting good. I'm laughin' my as$ off.

I've been tracking since ’97, a few months after I bought my first BMW.
I started university in 97, lololol.

[glenspeed]

Did you just call me a newbie?! I'm hurt :eek:

I didn't name anyone else!!!

[Ben-G]

when u guys host events is it open to non-bmw owners?

[webbie]

when u guys host events is it open to non-bmw owners?

yeS!!! better be or I will start crying :mad:

[rost12]

He did put you in the newbie group in one event,lol. :devil:

That's right! My mad driving skillz are not appreciated here, I see how it is :crying:

[rost12]

yeS!!! better be or I will start crying :mad:

Serves you right for buying a benz :p

[STALKER]

yeS!!! better be or I will start crying :mad:
We bring you out so ppl know to buy BMWs, lolol. KIDDING, love the SLK. Events are open to all brands.

[Ben-G]

during ur events r u allowed to pass any where or r there designated passing zones?

[STALKER]

during ur events r u allowed to pass any where or r there designated passing zones?
Only designated areas. We try to make the day as safe as possible and it comes down to all the participants.

[glenspeed]

we also reserve the right to take you off the track and keep you off if the driving isn't courteous and safe.

so far, this has never been as issue as all of the people that attend are great!

[Ben-G]

nice to know that it is a controlled track day, do u guys designate marshalls?

[STALKER]

nice to know that it is a controlled track day, do u guys designate marshalls?
Shannonville is small so you can see the whole track. A few of us keep our eyes open and on other drivers to make sure everyone is behaving.

[Ben-G]

stalker

@ shannoville do u guys run fabi/full/pro?

[Yorgi]

We usually do full for the morning and then pro after lunch, but it varies. If there are a lot of n00bs we split into two groups using fabi and nelson.

[STALKER]

We usually do full for the morning and then pro after lunch, but it varies. If there are a lot of n00bs we split into two groups using fabi and nelson.
hmm, where would Rost be in that case then, lol. woot

[rost12]

hmm, where would Rost be in that case then, lol. woot

Scroo joo, I'm going to Mosport then :angry: :p

[STALKER]

Scroo joo, I'm going to Mosport then :angry: :p
lol, good tamz.

[fayraree]

I can't..get...enough....