Pbr Deluxe Pads. [Archive]

db323

09-08-2004, 04:21 PM

Gentlemen/Ladies,
As many of you who saw the previous thread about "brake pads", I had purchased a whole set of pads ( 2x front 2x rear )from elite auto, the PBR deluxe plus pads (also known as axxis deluxe plus pads) at a very good price I might add and I had Phil at cross avenue do the install for me. At first, Phil said that these are excellent pads :thumbsup: Unfortunately we are gonna have to wait and see about the brake dust situation as I have not tested that yet due to my car is @ budds bmw right now for some warranty work. As soon as I get my car out and clean it I'll post a review on it, since I know the guys who was at the install last night really wants those pads as well.
As for the bedding process, I only did some of them since you do have to break in you pads, like going up to a certain speed and pumping the brakes for 6 or 7 times and all that process. It's a good thing to do to break it in, but I find some of the other steps are meant to be done when you get new calipers and rotors and stuff so imo it didn't really apply. Well to each his own but the brakes feel very agressive (i mean that in a good way ) very smooth braking, no noise and quicker stops. So far so good, now we'll see about the dust issue I'll keep you all posted.

BTW, Mad props go out to my boy Phil @ cross avenue and Sam for the wicked install and oil change. :yourmyido

Quickid

09-08-2004, 04:56 PM

You will be amazed how much less dust these bad boys produce. Not only that, it produces a light coloured dust, not black. Glad to see you're now on board with the Deluxe Plus crowd :thumbsup:

When it's time to change rotors, try Zimmerman Cross-Drilled.

db323

09-08-2004, 05:09 PM

yeah thanks, quickid. You are right about these pads. Zimmerman next.......hmmmmmmmm.......brembo.......hmmmmmmm :nerd:

audiophilia

09-08-2004, 07:43 PM

can't wait for the review, Ian...missed you at the mini meet...

dustless pads...i need those for the BBS CHs...:eek:

Surk

09-08-2004, 08:30 PM

christyles

09-08-2004, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=Quickid]You will be amazed how much less dust these bad boys produce. Not only that, it produces a light coloured dust, not black. Glad to see you're now on board with the Deluxe Plus crowd :thumbsup:

I'll 2nd that thought... No more weekly cleanings>>threw my old toothbrush away after I installed PBR's.. :thumbsup:
Toothbrush? I use a q-tip and my finger and cloth.
How do I wear my brake pads out faster :p

Question: how does it produce a light coloured dust if the material on the pad is still black/dark grey like other brake pads? Is it made of a different material that when heat is added to the element, it changes lighter in colour?

audiophilia

09-08-2004, 08:36 PM

Surk/Quick/Ian

How's the grip compared to OEM?

Heard some conflicting views on E46Fanatics...

ta

FSO

09-08-2004, 08:55 PM

Anthony,

I'm cleaning my rims at least once a day. This sucks. How much is "very good price"? and install?
:secret:

Jersey

09-08-2004, 08:57 PM

i think u need to ask ian...anthony is still running stocks

ianS

09-08-2004, 09:11 PM

I think it is time for me to have a new set of pads! and say bye bye to my black rims :perplexed

audiophilia

09-08-2004, 09:14 PM

Anthony,

I'm cleaning my rims at least once a day. This sucks. How much is "very good price"? and install?
:secret:
Are you requesting a Cross sponsor price? If so, PM Chris or me the details...we'll get back to you asap...

db323

09-08-2004, 09:30 PM

can't wait for the review, Ian...missed you at the mini meet...

dustless pads...i need those for the BBS CHs...:eek:

Hey Anthony,
Yeah I had to take off right away after the install with phil, I had some obligtions to attend to after, I wanted to be there too. I'll keep you posted on the pads, like quickid/surk and myself PBR DELUXE PLUS PADS :yourmyido .yOU SHOULD GET THESE FOR YOURBBS. Roni's thinking of buying them as well....

db323

09-08-2004, 09:38 PM

Surk/Quick/Ian

How's the grip compared to OEM?

Heard some conflicting views on E46Fanatics...

ta

I'll let you know when I get to REALLY drive it when I get my car back.

btw. For future considerations exclusive to members of e46 we do have our own midnight garage if anyone is interested. PM me/chris/eezzie for details.

oyster

09-09-2004, 10:16 AM

Will post feedback on monday.
Front Brembo rotor
Rear OEM rotor
PDR metal metallic pads

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 10:21 AM

Group buy on brake pads! :)

Mark

M333ee

09-09-2004, 10:22 AM

Group buy on brake pads! :)

Mark

Another GB.... I need to get a second job :crying:

Surk

09-09-2004, 10:27 AM

Surk/Quick/Ian
How's the grip compared to OEM?

IF bedded in correctly... I find them as good if not better then OEm...no fade in my hard use...Organic material on Deluxe Plus...makes dust almost beige or invisible... I hated cleaning my BBS cross spokes too... I haven't cleaned them since except when I wash the rest of the car...
YOU WILL NOT BE disappointed in these pads..if you track..perhaps get the ceramics... for street use..Metal Master or Deluxe Plus... :thumbsup:

Surk

09-09-2004, 10:30 AM

Another GB.... I need to get a second job

If there's gonna be a GB..let me know and I'll get dealership pricing from Elite Auto...

let me know quantity and if all E46 and I'll check into it..

oyster

09-09-2004, 10:56 AM

EricE330ci > U need a 3rd job, your second job is to keep posting so I can be entertained at work :nerd:

M333ee

09-09-2004, 11:11 AM

EricE330ci > U need a 3rd job, your second job is to keep posting so I can be entertained at work :nerd:

Ture so true ;)

Quickid

09-09-2004, 11:35 AM

Will post feedback on monday.
Front Brembo rotor
Rear OEM rotor
PDR metal metallic pads
You got the PBR MetalMasters? That's one of my choices and I'll be very interested in your review of that. They are semi metallic and apparently still dusty and a bit hard on the rotors. But let's see.. supposed to perform real well though.

FSO

09-09-2004, 12:19 PM

I'm in for the GB. Need to stop waisting time cleaning my ACS

330i CDN

09-09-2004, 12:21 PM

I'd like in too. My wheels are DIRRRTY.

oyster

09-09-2004, 12:29 PM

and who brings it to the shop?

dutty_mark3

09-09-2004, 12:44 PM

You got the PBR MetalMasters? That's one of my choices and I'll be very interested in your review of that. They are semi metallic and apparently still dusty and a bit hard on the rotors. But let's see.. supposed to perform real well though.

my experience with the PBR MetalMasters on my 325ci have been exceptional. you still get dust... but NOT NEARLY as much as with OEM. your wheels should not need cleaning outside of your regular car washing schedule.

with respect to harshness on rotors... at the time i had the MetalMasters installed i also got the Brembo cross-drilled rotors for front and back. now, as i'm not an expert, i dunno what "hard on the rotors" looks like - but they *looked* normal to me when i sold my 325ci.

also, for what it's worth, i ran through the oem rotors and pads on the 325ci in 32000km - was i hard on them? of course the answer will vary by driving style but what is typical wear for rotors and pads?

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 12:58 PM

Quickid, what's your opinion on installing new pads on existing rotors? Go with new rotors instead?

Mark

Quickid

09-09-2004, 01:09 PM

my experience with the PBR MetalMasters on my 325ci have been exceptional. you still get dust... but NOT NEARLY as much as with OEM. your wheels should not need cleaning outside of your regular car washing schedule.

with respect to harshness on rotors... at the time i had the MetalMasters installed i also got the Brembo cross-drilled rotors for front and back. now, as i'm not an expert, i dunno what "hard on the rotors" looks like - but they *looked* normal to me when i sold my 325ci.

also, for what it's worth, i ran through the oem rotors and pads on the 325ci in 32000km - was i hard on them? of course the answer will vary by driving style but what is typical wear for rotors and pads?

Thanks for sharing that info since I don't have experience with Metalmasters. Driving style pretty much dictates the life of rotors and pads. Some pads are known to wear out rotors quicker than others (that's what I meant by hard on the rotors) and I heard MetalMasters do that but your experience seem to indicate otherwise. That's good to know.

32K kms sounds reasonable for pads but shops tend to replace both rotors and pads at the same time so maybe there's still some life left in your rotors. At any rate, it sounds like your pad usage is similar to what I experience.

I don't usually replace pads and rotors at the same time. I basically replace only what I have to. At 35K kms, I replaced only the front pads with another OEM pad. At 52K, I finally got sick of the dust and replaced all the pads with Axxis Deluxe Plus even though there's still lots of meat left on the front pads. I also replaced the front rotors at 52K to experiment with the Zimmerman cross-drilled. If it had turned out to be a bad experience, I was gonna get slotted rotors all around but at 55K, I was satisfied with the Zimmermans and so I got a matching set for the rears.

Quickid

09-09-2004, 01:11 PM

Quickid, what's your opinion on installing new pads on existing rotors? Go with new rotors instead?

Mark
Ooops, I must be still typing when you sent this... see above post.

Edit: The net of it is (at least for me) that if you're doing it yourself and you don't mind spending the time then don't replace the rotors at the same time. If you're paying someone to install, then it's not worth saving on the rotors 'cause you'll probably end up paying more on labour.

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 01:23 PM

Ooops, I must be still typing when you sent this... see above post.

Edit: The net of it is (at least for me) that if you're doing it yourself and you don't mind spending the time then don't replace the rotors at the same time. If you're paying someone to install, then it's not worth saving on the rotors 'cause you'll probably end up paying more on labour.

I guess my experience has been with the north american cars I've owned up to now, where you put pads on with old rotors and a month later you get severe vibrations due to the grooved rotor surface not matching the new pads plus the poor quality of the rotors to begin with. Then, after getting a brake job done where they took so much rotor surface off that the rotors were warped and useless within a couple months...

I've always done rotors AND pads together and gotten better results. Then again, I haven't done them on this car. Basically I'm looking to get rid of the dust monsters on the rear but not have to do the rotors if possible.

Thanks for the thoughts Quickid (and all) - this has been highly educational.

Mark

oyster

09-09-2004, 01:30 PM

Quickid

09-09-2004, 02:02 PM

If I need to jack the car up and spend 1/2 day on it. Then I will replace the rotors and pads. Turning rotors is not worth it....it's a ticking time bomb.....you got to jack up the cars in a few months to finish the job.

I got this feeling that my rear pads are still serviceable but I will put 4 new rotors and new pads. end of story
Well, of course we each have our own way of calculating the value of our time and each of us does the same job in different amounts of time. I didn't mean to say that all brake job DIYs are equal. In your case it makes sense to do it all at once.

Edit:

Just a thought.. if you're local and you want a shop to do the brake job, I can point you to a place that only charges $100 or so for labour for all 4 corners. You bring your own pads/rotors and he'll do it for you. I think that's better than spending 1/2 day. PM me if interested.

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 02:32 PM

Quickid

09-09-2004, 02:36 PM

I wish I had more to do on this car, alas it is just to darn reliable. (Oh crap, shouldn't have said it...)

Mark

Don't jinx it... Uh oh, I hear your windows going clickety clik....

oyster

09-09-2004, 03:14 PM

It's like a stress reliever, get greasy. Get to know my car, the bmw engineering

BlueSky

09-09-2004, 04:13 PM

i am planning to do my rear rotor/pads too... and I've read the DIYs...
will I be able to do it?? I am ok with tools but not too confident about it...

Chopper

09-09-2004, 04:17 PM

But dude, spending half the day and gettin' all greezy is the best part! ;)

As you say Quickid, each has his own way of looking at it. I wish I had more to do on this car, alas it is just to darn reliable. (Oh crap, shouldn't have said it...)

Mark

Hey- if you're looking to do work on Bimmers, I am sure a bunch of us have interesting maintenance projects on our cars that they'd be happy to give to you to do...you know...to help you out from being sad. :D :D :D

audiophilia

09-09-2004, 05:08 PM

Hey Anthony,
Yeah I had to take off right away after the install with phil, I had some obligtions to attend to after, I wanted to be there too. I'll keep you posted on the pads, like quickid/surk and myself PBR DELUXE PLUS PADS :yourmyido .yOU SHOULD GET THESE FOR YOURBBS. Roni's thinking of buying them as well....
sounds good...did Phil have to change the sensor?

Quickid

09-09-2004, 05:08 PM

i am planning to do my rear rotor/pads too... and I've read the DIYs...
will I be able to do it?? I am ok with tools but not too confident about it...
You should be able to do it.... Jack the car up properly and follow the DIY writeup and the 2 steps that can give you trouble are:
- Removing the rotors... it can get stuck real good and may require some pounding using a hammer.
- Pushing the caliper pistons back... in some cases this can be done by hand but you may need to get a caliper spreader from Canadian Tire. I think it's $17 or something.

Good Luck!!!!

audiophilia

09-09-2004, 05:10 PM

Another GB.... I need to get a second job

If there's gonna be a GB..let me know and I'll get dealership pricing from Elite Auto...

let me know quantity and if all E46 and I'll check into it..
That'd be great, Surk...maybe get a price for 10 sets..

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 08:27 PM

...Pushing the caliper pistons back...

How about the c-clamp trick? Does that work on these calipers?

Surk, I'd be very interested in rear pads, especially if I can get away with keeping my existing rotors.

Quickid

09-09-2004, 08:32 PM

How about the c-clamp trick? Does that work on these calipers?
Yes it will work also.

Canuck328i

09-09-2004, 09:04 PM

Hey- if you're looking to do work on Bimmers, I am sure a bunch of us have interesting maintenance projects on our cars that they'd be happy to give to you to do...you know...to help you out from being sad. :D :D :D

Hey, get in line behind Chris! (We may still get that thing thumpin' before winter...)

Mark

christyles

09-09-2004, 09:19 PM

Hey, get in line behind Chris! (We may still get that thing thumpin' before winter...)

Mark
Really? Cause the proj is still open, I don't know if I can detail your cosmo in 10ft of snow cause I'm only like 5'6". But I can make it all nice after the winter.

Quickid

09-10-2004, 09:14 AM

Came across this thread which should shed some more light on the Axxis/PBR company name confusion. Dave Zeckhausen has a strong reputation as a brake specialist and BMW expert. I bought my pads directly from him.

Note for db323 what I said to you in my reply to your PM and for those trying to do a group buy. Up until recently, PBR is associated with the old Deluxe brand that does not perform as well as the Deluxe Plus so unless you're getting new stock, please be aware what you're really getting. I once got an email from a roadfly member wondering why my brakes performed better than his and I suspected he got the old Deluxe pads. Anyway, hope this helps....

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=194355

db323

09-10-2004, 09:39 AM

thanks Quickid, I read the thread and the pads that I bought are the NEW stock it has NO ASBESTOS on it, materials are made from organic compunds. You could even tell from the box. Box was crisp and very new and Raymond assured me that they are the new ones. :)

Regin8r

09-11-2004, 12:16 AM

I'm in for brake group buy. I'll need new pads soon I think.

audiophilia

09-11-2004, 07:12 AM

I'm in for brake group buy. I'll need new pads soon I think.
You're in Paris with a lovely women, th City of Light, the City of Love, and you are thinking about brake pads...c'mon Reg, the cars are great, but not that great...;)

j/k...hope you having fun...:)

oyster

09-11-2004, 11:27 AM

Ok so jacking the front end was easy. Small little square up front to jack from the middle then, put the 2 jack stands. (will take pictures later on)

Problem #1: Wheels lugs all removed, the rims were glued to the hub, so I put in 2 bolts for safety and start hammering the tires from inside. Problem solved with a few good hammer strikes

Problem #2: The disc/rotor won't freaking come off :mad: , I tried heating it up with a blow torch and hammering. Tried penetrating oil too.

Off to part store to get the extrator tool. I got one extrator for balljoints but it's too short.

Problem #3: My brake pads are still thick, stealership lied to their teeth when they said I had 3mm in the front pads.

Will keep the board posted

Canuck328i

09-11-2004, 12:40 PM

Problem #1: Wheels lugs all removed, the rims were glued to the hub, so I put in 2 bolts for safety and start hammering the tires from inside. Problem solved with a few good hammer strikes
Try this next time - reinstall all lugs, but back off about 3 or 4 turns. Put car back down on ground, and rock sideways back and forth at the stuck wheel. It should break free of the rotor. (This came from the GM Service site!)

Problem #2: The disc/rotor won't freaking come off :mad: , I tried heating it up with a blow torch and hammering. Tried penetrating oil too.
Be cautious with hammering the wheel hub too much - the sharp blows can do a number on the bearing sets. I've had experience with this. :(

Problem #3: My brake pads are still thick, stealership lied to their teeth when they said I had 3mm in the front pads.
They may have been quoting you on how much "usable" pad there is left. They may have meant "3mm left until the brakes must be done", not "3mm left until pads are at bare metal". Not defending the dealerships though!!

Mark

oyster

09-11-2004, 05:21 PM

Ok folks, Front brakes done

Disc / Rotor tip
If the stupid thing won't come off, get a 7 inch puller from Crappy tire $50.00. It pops out by itself. Blow torch, impact hammer/chisel and penetrating oil fails

Tire / Rim tip
If the alloy wheels are glued to the hub, use a 16oz rubber hammer to get the wheels off. Hit the tire!!! not the rims from inside.

Caliper tip
I rest them in the strut and use a bungee cord to secure.

Brake sensor tip
Carefull removing it (driver side), I chip mine off, will get a new sensor one of these days.

Torque wrench
I got 3 torque wrench, if you buy 1, make sure it goes from 12ft/lbs to 100ft/lbs+.

Jacking tip
Use a floor jack and put a hockey puck ($1) in place of the metal saucer

When reassembling everything, I greased the hub with anti-seized compound and greased the disc/rotor (where the rims rest against)

Comment, I break-in the install, with the links previously posted. I got smoke out of my front brakes, I guess it's the excess anti-seized compound burning off.