Stainless Steel Brake Lines...

[enarchy]

Here's my situation, my rear brakes are worn, this is what I plan to do:

-Axxis Ultimate pads all around
-Brembo rear rotors

QUESTION:
In my case, is it beneficial to upgrade to SS lines? Or would it be a waste of money?

In the future i may upgrade my fronts to a BBK (Brembo or Stoptech).
I do not track my car, I may once, but not enough to say I do it on a regular basis.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Chopper]

Here's my situation, my rear brakes are worn, this is what I plan to do:

-Axxis Ultimate pads all around
-Brembo rear rotors

QUESTION:
In my case, is it beneficial to upgrade to SS lines? Or would it be a waste of money?

In the future i may upgrade my fronts to a BBK (Brembo or Stoptech).
I do not track my car, I may once, but not enough to say I do it on a regular basis.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff


My pads are worn too. I'm thinking of getting the Axxis. Where are you going to pick them up?

[enarchy]

My pads are worn too. I'm thinking of getting the Axxis. Where are you going to pick them up?

A buddy of mine is ordering a bunch of stuff from the states, so he can get cheaper on shipping. Please PM if you are interested

[STALKER]

yes yes and yes. Its one of the best mods you can do regarding your brakes. Not a very $$$ mod either. Get a good set of pads, rotors, SS lines and some good brake fluid and you will notice a very big diff in your brakes, if that does not do it for you, then get the BBK. One thing to remember, all these aftermarket pads are different, some are better in some areas than others, cold, heat, dusting, pressure, materials, so do you research to get one that suits your driving style and your needs or else you really won't be happy with them. Axxis pads are good, so are Hawk and Pagid, Ferrodo are also very good, but they are more $$$. Good luck.

[BlueSky]

definitely get SS lines... it's totally worth it, don't remember some DOT4/5 brake fliud too...

IMO don't worry about wasting $ on the SS line... if u ever get BBK in the future... just sell the new SS line that came with the kit... ;)

[enarchy]

How about getting SS lines only for the rear? Would that have some kind of weird balace towards my car?

And where did everyone get their SS lines?

[audiophilia]

Jeff, don't forget our big Spring DIY brake install in the Spring -- can you wait that long? ;)

[BlueSky]

How about getting SS lines only for the rear? Would that have some kind of weird balace towards my car?

And where did everyone get their SS lines?

SS lines aren't that expensive... come'on Jeff... :blaaaa:
as soon as you change the rear lines to SS lines... u'll have to bleed the brakes anyway... save some labour and a 2nd bleed and install the SS line up front at the same time...

just changing the SS lines on rear might cause unbalanced brake bias... which is not a good thing...

[glenspeed]

SS lines aren't that expensive... come'on Jeff... :blaaaa:
as soon as you change the rear lines to SS lines... u'll have to bleed the brakes anyway... save some labour and a 2nd bleed and install the SS line up front at the same time...

just changing the SS lines on rear might cause unbalanced brake bias... which is not a good thing...

changing brake lines in rear or front won't necessarily change brake bias to unbalanced it, yes your stock lines expand somewhat compared to stainless, but it's not like a balloon! Also if the lines are fairly new < 2 years, they shouldn't be that bad. You won't be doing yourself any favors though since you won't get the benefit of the stainless lines if you only go halfway.

[enarchy]

SS lines aren't that expensive... come'on Jeff... :blaaaa:
as soon as you change the rear lines to SS lines... u'll have to bleed the brakes anyway... save some labour and a 2nd bleed and install the SS line up front at the same time...

just changing the SS lines on rear might cause unbalanced brake bias... which is not a good thing...

LOL
not being cheap..haaha because i might do BBK in the spring, and come equipped with SS lines.

Anyways, where can i get SS lines locale? I am able to get everything else, but these badboys.

audiophilia: YES dont worry, i remember, hopefull when spring comes, i'll have something to install!

[alexm520]

Here's my situation, my rear brakes are worn, this is what I plan to do:
-Axxis Ultimate pads all around
-Brembo rear rotors
QUESTION:
In my case, is it beneficial to upgrade to SS lines? Or would it be a waste of money?
Jeff

IMHO, it is a waste of money for street use (track use is another matter based on your level). As long as you have good (high dry & wet boiling point) brake fluid that you flush and/or bleed regularly and a set of good aftermarket pads, you don't really need anything else.

But, if your heart is set on it, make sure they are silicone or teflon coated for extra protection.

[glenspeed]

IMHO, it is a waste of money for street use (track use is another matter based on your level). As long as you have good (high dry & wet boiling point) brake fluid that you flush and/or bleed regularly and a set of good aftermarket pads, you don't really need anything else.

But, if your heart is set on it, make sure they are silicone or teflon coated for extra protection.

I agree, for street you won't get the benefit, stock lines are perfectly fine. Put it this way, if you have never boiled your brake fluid, fused brake pads or warped a disk you don't need stainless lines...

[enarchy]

I agree, for street you won't get the benefit, stock lines are perfectly fine. Put it this way, if you have never boiled your brake fluid, fused brake pads or warped a disk you don't need stainless lines...

Yes, but i do change my brakes every couple of months or so.
Quite the aggressive braker i'd say.

I guess I just want that firm feel.

[STALKER]

The way I see it, if you need to change it, then replace it with something better. They run for like $90 USD from Turner.
You are changing your brakes every couple of months???????????

[alexm520]

Yes, but i do change my brakes every couple of months or so.
Quite the aggressive braker i'd say.

I guess I just want that firm feel.

Want: Firmer feel
Problem: MAYBE air in the lines (does not matter stock or steel)
Solution: A complete flush with good DOT4 fluid (i.e., ATE Super Gold / TYP 200 or ATE Blue) or DOT 5.1 (i.e., MOTUL 5.1 ..... need more race proven > MOTUL Racing Brake Fluid (RBF) 600 which is DOT4 approved but needs a bit more frequent changes .. that's what I use ... I know a place with good price for it )
Bleeding brake fluid from each caliper just a bit (not a full flush) every 6 months (for street use) will maintain nice and firm feel.

Want: Long lasting pads
Problem: Hard braking which generates very high temperature and burn pads
Solution: Switch to dual purpose (street/track) brake pads that can handle up to 900-1000F ... with good braking co-efficient to avoid pad fade.

Entry level street/track: HAWK HPS pads
Middle level street/track: AXXIS ULTIMATES (cheap, good perf for money but at least 50+% dust of OEM pads)
TOP end street/track: HAWK HP+ (dusty ,noisy and not easy on rotors), CARBOTECH PANTHER PLUS (good but very dusty) or my current/favourite FERODO DS2500 (pricey, 1/4 dust of OEM, easy on rotors, practically no sqeaks with caliper lube)
There are others like "Performance Friction Z" >>> people will think that a train is coming down the street and dusty but they DO stop.

P.S. I also had PORTERFIELD R4S = Love it for street use, initial bite is superb, better than DS2500 but slightly lower braking co-efficient.

[BlueSky]

i enjoy reading Alex's reply all the time...
very informative :yourmyido

[alexm520]

i enjoy reading Alex's reply all the time...
very informative :yourmyido

Thank you! This is one area I do know a little :-).

[adrian330]

What about all the traction control systems onboard?? When changing brakes, will this affect the systems in any way?

Adrian

[enarchy]

alex, very informative, thanks!!

[christyles]

Want: Firmer feel
Problem: MAYBE air in the lines (does not matter stock or steel)
Solution: A complete flush with good DOT4 fluid (i.e., ATE Super Gold / TYP 200 or ATE Blue) or DOT 5.1 (i.e., MOTUL 5.1 ..... need more race proven > MOTUL Racing Brake Fluid (RBF) 600 which is DOT4 approved but needs a bit more frequent changes .. that's what I use ... I know a place with good price for it )
Bleeding brake fluid from each caliper just a bit (not a full flush) every 6 months (for street use) will maintain nice and firm feel.

Want: Long lasting pads
Problem: Hard braking which generates very high temperature and burn pads
Solution: Switch to dual purpose (street/track) brake pads that can handle up to 900-1000F ... with good braking co-efficient to avoid pad fade.

Entry level street/track: HAWK HPS pads
Middle level street/track: AXXIS ULTIMATES (cheap, good perf for money but at least 50+% dust of OEM pads)
TOP end street/track: HAWK HP+ (dusty ,noisy and not easy on rotors), CARBOTECH PANTHER PLUS (good but very dusty) or my current/favourite FERODO DS2500 (pricey, 1/4 dust of OEM, easy on rotors, practically no sqeaks with caliper lube)
There are others like "Performance Friction Z" >>> people will think that a train is coming down the street and dusty but they DO stop.

P.S. I also had PORTERFIELD R4S = Love it for street use, initial bite is superb, better than DS2500 but slightly lower braking co-efficient.
Alex, this is going in the DIY section. Thank you.

[alexm520]

What about all the traction control systems onboard?? When changing brakes, will this affect the systems in any way?

Adrian

Never had any problems from changing to better pads or brake fluid. Nor have I heard anything negative from anyone at BMW Clubs or on many Bimmer forums.

The only caveat if you have different front and rear brake pads. The ones that grip better and longer should be on the front brakes and less performance oriented on the rear.
For example, since front brakes do most of the braking, you can actually change them to a much better pad but leave the rear ones with stock OEM pads.

Traction control is more to do with wheel spin / rotation.... and overall diameter of the rim/tire combo

[oyster]

I agree, for street you won't get the benefit, stock lines are perfectly fine. Put it this way, if you have never boiled your brake fluid, fused brake pads or warped a disk you don't need stainless lines...


warp disk, hum.... I need SS next time I flush and bleed brake system

[glenspeed]

Here's a list of stuff you should be doing in order of priority when it comes to brakes: I think it also works out in terms of escalating cost...funny how things like that work out!

1) fluid flush with regular fluid or racing fluid, I use Motul RBF 600 or ATE Super Blue. Motul is slightly higher boiling points but 2x cost of ATE and ATE works well for most people. Stock fluid is cheap and if you never go to the track works just as well. Brand new stock fluid is still better than used racing fluid...
2) street/track pads - start with front, try something along Alex's list. You can get away with front only as they do most of the work. It really only makes a huge difference if you have materially different pad characteristics front/back like racing pads front/stock pads back to warrant changing rear from stock. Most street/track pads won't be so different that you need to worry about this. It's only when you get into the pure racing pads that have very different cold/hot temperature ranges and friction levels that you need to think about rear pads to match.
3) stainless steel lines - Goodrich, Stoptech, Turner all make good ones for about $100 US
4) slotted disks - get them aftermarket or there are shops that can do it to stock disks. crossed drilled unless they are already cast and even then will develop stress cracks, or use OEM Euro cross drilled disks.
5) two piece rotors
6) fresh air ducting plates to disks
7) BBK !

[M333ee]

Glen,

Are you going to try the euro rotors for track use or are you going aftermarket BBK?

Not only are they 2 peice floating but they also reduce unsprung weight and only cost about $800usd for all 4 :}:

Even for track use (I was talking to Dave Zuckhausen the brake expert) and he recommends the euro rotors for the M3 and agressive track pads.

[glenspeed]

so far the dealership has been able to replace my disks 1x (my car is only 2 years old) when they got warped, so that is free. I will see how it goes next summer and if I had to pay for new rotors I would go Euro rotors first. I don't have the budget for BBK as good as they would be on the track!

Yes, Euro rotors plus track pads should be fine for what I need if I was to upgrade brakes, plus SS lines of course.

[audiophilia]

Looks like Glen and Alex will be two of our experts at the grand Spring brake install...great info, guys!! Thanks.

[glenspeed]

sounds good to me! giddy up...

[audiophilia]

sounds good to me! giddy up...
BTW Glen, silver gray is a drop dead gorgeous colour for an M3. My favourite!!!

[glenspeed]

BTW Glen, silver gray is a drop dead gorgeous colour for an M3. My favourite!!!

thanks! and it's dirt friendly too.

I love the CH rims on the E46 they go very well with the 3 series...reminds me a bit of the American Lemans M3 GTR or the Ferrari Challenge wheels.

[STALKER]

BTW Glen, silver gray is a drop dead gorgeous colour for an M3. My favourite!!!

Im sorry, what was that about the M3, and your fav colour?????lolol.

[audiophilia]

Im sorry, what was that about the M3, and your fav colour?????lolol.

lol


sorry bud, love the SG...but TB is almost as nice...the good news? the other colours all suck compared to ours and SG:D

[STALKER]

Damage is done, now i really know how you feel. LOL.

[audiophilia]

Damage is done, now i really know how you feel. LOL.
I/m very sorry. Puhleeeeze forgive me:crying:

Glenspeed, I've changed my mind, SG sux:D

[STALKER]

you are getting warmer. I thnk Glens car is Steel Grey and not Silver Grey, no? I like the Steel Grey better.

[glenspeed]

ok guys no fighting over the colour of my car alright? we all know it's the best colour anyways!

[M333ee]

lol


sorry bud, love the SG...but TB is almost as nice...the good news? the other colours all suck compared to ours and SG:D

TITANIUM SILVER !!!!!!!

[enarchy]

LOL
where are the moderators?
A little off-topic dont u guys think?

[oyster]

LOL
where are the moderators?
A little off-topic dont u guys think?
that's the beauty of this forum, people go off topic and jack threads

[audiophilia]

LOL
where are the moderators?
A little off-topic dont u guys think?
We are right here. We like to jack threads...:D

[christyles]

We are right here. We like to jack threads...:D
We like to jack Enarchy's threads espcially...LOl! ok. Back to jeffs SSL's.
We'll start a car colour thread elsewhere then... :D

[enarchy]

So where did everyone get their SS lines?

[glenspeed]

So where did everyone get their SS lines?

get them from Stoptech or Turner Motorsport. both around $100.

[BlueSky]

got mine from StopTech...